Pakhpum Wonjinda

Director:

• Pee Kao Pee Ook (2013)
• Who Are You? (2010)
• Vdoclip (2007)
• Rab Nong Sayong Kwan/Scared (2005)
• Formalin Man (2004)

Your horror scripts tend to focus on very young characters placed in a variety of dangerous situations. What is so appealing about teen horror?

Pakhpum Wonjinda: I guess the most important reason is marketing. You can’t forget these are Thai movies and if we’re talking about Thai movies, the largest part of the audience consists of teenagers and college students. So obviously that’s part of my motivation. But also, I’m surrounded with young people and I find it easy to communicate with them. I feel I can understand them much better than any other age group. I find teenagers very natural and it’s just fascinating to take that raw natural quality and put it on film.

But why do you “put” this quality into horror films instead of comedies or love stories?

P.W.: I think horror dominates a great part of my unconsciousness. It’s pure adrenaline rush. I’ve been watching horror films since I was a kid. And it got stuck in my mind – how the films were edited, how the story was told, how they used cameras... So when I had a chance to make my films it all came rushing back. You could say that horror, blood and gore are always there for me, before anything else. And when I have a chance to make a horror movie I can feel that I truly enjoy it.

Not only your characters are frequently young but you are actually working with very young actors. Your actress for Vdoclip was so young she was actually coming to the set with her mother. Is working with young actors easier or more difficult?

P.W.: It’s not just their age that’s difficult but the fact that they have never done any acting before. If you think it’s difficult to work with inexperienced actors then you’re wrong. It’s not just difficult. It’s extremely difficult to direct them. But it’s also rewarding. You will get the freshness out of the patterns that we ordinarily see. Most Thai actors and actresses come to film from TV drama. But they cannot escape their TV past and whatever they do they end up acting TV drama. Unlike in Hollywood, in Thailand we do not have much choice – there are almost no professional actors apart from TV actors. But this is not what I want. I don’t like this kind of acting. I like it fresh, realistic and natural.

Rab Nong is a very good example of what can be called a “Thai slasher.” Like in a typical slasher movie you’ve got a group of young people dying violent deaths one after another at the hands of the same killer, but where American slashers introduce sex, drugs and alcohol in Thai films we see superstitions and invoking the supernatural. Can you think of a reason behind this new pattern? Is that because it’s more acceptable to show teenagers calling on the spirits than having sex?

P.W.: I see it as something typical for our society. Take American and Thai culture as an example. If you want to talk about, let’s say, serial killers, you’re going to hear that we don’t have serial killers in Thailand. It’s simply impossible to make people believe that serial killers could actually exist here. You cannot even say that somebody is sick and he’s running around killing people. Thai people would deny it – no there is no one like that in Thailand. It’s simply impossible. So if I had chosen to have some psycho running around killing kids in Rab Nong nobody would have taken it seriously. You see, in American culture it may be easy to portray a killer like that in a movie; a killer who just grabs a gun or a knife and sets out to kill people at random. But in Thailand most crimes are seen as motivated by personal revenge. People believe there has to be a reason to kill; cause and effect. And so the only way to show killing outside that cause-and-effect pattern is to involve black magic. And that’s something the audience will easily believe in here. When I was working on the first draft of Rab Nong, the story was meant to be about black magic. But then we all agreed that black magic seemed a bit clichéd and we wanted something new.

Is that why you decided to mix supernatural elements with a killer plot?

P.W.: Yes. Rab Nong starts like a supernatural movie and then suddenly there’s a twist. At first I wanted to mislead the audience, to make them think of ghosts and something unknown. In Rab Nong people start dying 17 minutes into the movie when the bus falls down from the bridge. So I tried to introduce an idea that their deaths were caused by some angry mountain ghosts. But in the end you see it’s all part of a game show.

Speaking of the bus accident… the scene looks quite realistic. So what’s the secret? Did you actually drop a bus into the river?

P.W.: Yes, it was a real bus falling into a real river. We spent something like 1/3 of our entire budget on this sequence.

And was the bridge real as well?

P.W.: We found the perfect bridge in Sankaburi province. But in reality the bus couldn’t go onto the bridge. It was too old; just a man walking and it was already shaking badly. So we used a model to shoot some parts. And we also had a replica set bridge built to put the car onto it. And when the bus was falling it all came together – models, CG bridge and the real one. We put a sling on the bus and hanged it down from the crane. And all this in the first week of shooting. I know it doesn’t seem much by Hollywood standards, but here in Thailand it was a big scene. And also, I was afraid that if we waited to shoot this scene at the end we might run out of budget and we wouldn’t be able to do it that well. And it’s the money-shot for my movie. So it had to be made first.

And how long did you prep for that?

P.W.: When the script was ready we made an animation and then we talked about the stunts and what we were going to do in every cut.

And what about the death scenes? They look quite realistic too...

P.W.: I admit it was difficult. When you are making a slasher killing becomes your priority. So it’s design, design, design. I did not want to be repetitive and steal shots from other movies, although you can never truly escape it in the end. In Rab Nong the killings were designed to match the locations and settings of the different parts of the characters’ journey. It seemed the most logical way to do it. We did not use too much CG, mostly because our budget was limited. Plus the people who were supposed to do CG were not that convincing to me. So we had to improvise. Thai cinema is not like Hollywood. It’s more like OTOP. It’s pretty much home-made and most likely out of date if we compare it with other countries. We go back to the basics. For instance, in one scene we used a root with thorns to poke out one character’s eyes. It was a tree called chang long, which means a screaming elephant. When I designed it I wanted something natural rather than a man-made object. And it worked.

In the making of Rab Nong, were you inspired by the actual Thai custom of student initiation rites or rather basing on a similar idea of the brotherhood pledge, which is a frequent topic of American slashers?

P.W.: It all started really after my first film failed to make money. I wanted to do something different, something that had never before been seen in Thai cinema. As I said before, in Thailand we had never really had slasher films. If you tried to show killing the critics would always say the film was bad.

Is that what they said about your film then?

P.W.: As always there were two groups. Some people liked it some didn’t. I wanted to do a gore movie with design. With some nice deaths.

But why rab nong. Have you ever taken part in the rab nong rituals?

P.W.: Yes. Every university in Thailand does it. In the past when you heard about rab nong it made people really afraid. It was mostly the fear of being humiliated in public. And it was very aggressive. It left a lot of scars in many kids’ hearts. It even caused fighting between seniors and juniors. It’s the ritual that all the kids know. When you say you’re going to rab nong your mind already starts thinking “what the hell is going to happen?” “what are they going to do to me?” In the movie it’s the same but scarier. More extreme.

The ending of Rab Nong turning the story into a game show is a rather unexpected twist. I have heard that this was not the original ending but rather that the studio made you change the script. Is that true?

P.W.: I had a few alternative endings in mind before I started shooting. One of them involved an online game show. But then I decided that Thai audience might relate better to a reality TV show, since these kinds of shows are very popular in Thailand. But I was still thinking in terms of a real story, of the seniors really coming down and killing the juniors. And I wanted to keep it more “American style,” including a real psychopath. In the end I decided to go with the reality TV ending because I wanted to give the audience something to talk about, the big twist in the movie. But it kind of misfired. The twist ended up being so big that many Thai people didn’t like the film. They did not buy its logic. In my early draft I had more shots showing cameras placed everywhere and the actual shooting of reality TV. But then we decided to cut that out since we didn’t want to spoil the surprise.

So it wasn’t the studio telling you to change the ending?

P.W.: [Laughing] Nobody controlled me, if that’s what you’re asking. We had meetings and discussions and we reached an agreement about what was the best for the film. However the ending changed again. The whole story did not really finish the way we had seen it in the beginning. It got extended since I ran into a problem that I had never expected. I never told that to anyone before.

Is it OK if we print it then?

P.W.: Yes. According to my original script the story was supposed to keep on going until there was only one person left alive. So, beginning with the second act I wanted to focus more on the reality TV idea and finally to show the four survivors and the way three of them died. In other words, to show what’s happening once the characters find out that they’re part of a reality show. But the problem came when the remaining four actors became famous during the shooting of the movie. They became “Superstars.” And then they didn’t want to die. They refused to play. [Laughing] That was unacceptable.

Unbelievable! Did that really happen?

P.W.: Yes. I did fight with the managers of those kids because of that. When I brought them aboard they were not famous, they had never played in a movie. But later they felt like superstars and suddenly none of the actors wanted to come to the set if we wanted to shoot them dying. It’s funny because as you know I never give my cast the script. So nobody really knew how the story was ending. But when they started finding out that there was going to be only one survivor left then the problems started.

What do you mean you didn’t give your actors the script?

P.W. Nobody had the script. We were shooting page by page from the story. So the actors could see other actors dying at the end of the scene. And the main problem with having one survivor was that initially everyone had thought they were the lead. In reality there was no lead.

But why didn’t you want your actors to see the script before shooting?

P.W.: I didn’t want them to build up their emotions before the scene. You have to remember that none of my actors had any previous experience with film so if they had known too much it could have ruined the scene. So almost everything was improvised.

What about the actress in Vdoclip? Did she have the script?

P.W.: Yes she had it. All that fighting during Rab Nong made me change my style of directing. I told her everything. But then, after finishing Vdoclip I felt disappointed. If I had known the result was going to be like that I would have never let her read the script. She got so worked up that she only had one emotion and looked stiff all the time. It’s so different from that natural look I got in Rab Nong. The cast in Vdoclip had built up the story in their heads and it was difficult to get rid of it. This is where I failed. So, coming back to Rab Nong, this is why I had to speed up the ending. Because I couldn’t do what I really wanted to. I would have liked to shoot some 20 minutes more. I had it all written down but we could not come to any agreement with the cast. Quite sad. It really makes me want to do a sequel.

With the same actors?

P.W.: [Laughing]

And how did the cast do after Rab Nong?

P.W.: All the cast did well. Only the director’s still stuck here where he was. [Laughing]

Your last film, Vdoclip shows the side of Thailand that is not often shown in Thai movies – drug use and drug-trafficking, casual sex in a car, gay sex in a nightclub, pornographic net sites. Did you get into trouble with the censors because of that?

P.W.: We had almost no problems. At the beginning we went through the censorship twice and the film didn’t pass, so we couldn’t show it. But then the censors wanted to have one more day to make the final decision and after the second meeting they said that the movie didn’t support bad behaviour and they let it go. You have to remember that censorship in Thailand is mostly concerned with nudity, not with drugs or violence.

Vdoclip seems to be a film with a strong moral message, criticising contemporary society. What inspired you to make this movie?

P.W.: I got inspired by Rab Nong, or rather by the critics’ reaction to it. According to them there was nothing serious in Rab Nong, no depth. So I wanted to do something deeper instead. But when I did that they complained again saying that it was too deep and too moral. So now I stopped caring. [Laughing]

I’ve been wondering. How exactly do you become a movie critic in Thailand?

P.W.: I’m not quite sure myself. One of the critics I know is still in college. He’s studying film but he hasn’t graduated yet. And in general the critics seem to avoid the spotlight and there don’t seem to be any fixed rules. I guess, if you want to write about films you do.

But do Thai film critics actually influence Thai cinema?

P.W.: No, not really. Not at the moment. Because as the results show many movies that the critics liked didn’t make any money at all and on the contrary some of those they hated made money. So there’s no rule. Besides, most Thai people go to the cinema without reading what the critics have to say. They go because of the film’s promotion and marketing.

Both Vdoclip and Rab Nong introduce the idea of modern technology used to hurt people. Are you afraid that the increasing use of technology and mechanical devices makes people less human?

P.W.: When I look at the people in Thailand I think they have all gone numb. They don’t realise that technology can put them in danger, can be used for crime, or do them harm. They only think of fun. When I made my films I wanted to show people the harmful effects of technology. Today it seems whatever you do nobody really cares, everyone is indifferent. If you think again, this can be dangerous for society. It’s the same with corruption. If you say that some politician took the money that was going to build a road, nobody feels anything. Even the riots we saw in Thailand recently, it was all like a movie set. You cannot see the truth. I see the Thai society right now as fake and messed up. And the generation gap is large. The kids have their own world filled with technology that the older generation doesn’t understand. Parents never know what their kids are doing with their mobiles and computers.

Let’s talk about the gender issues for a change. Tell us something about the lesbian motif in Vdoclip.

P.W.: It all started with noticing that most of the actual videoclips people watch on their mobiles or on the net are sexual in nature. I wanted to do something a bit more unpredictable in a predictable way. It could have been about friendship as well as about a romantic relationship. I wanted to show a story of a lesbian who had lost the loved one but I wanted to avoid the tom-dee pattern of a tomboy and the more female-looking lesbian. So I started researching schools for girls. They have quite a lot of cases like that. I wanted my main character to be the girl who had lost the loved one. She’s half-Thai half-Japanese and she had already lost her mom to suicide as a kid so nobody’s taking care of her as family. But when she’s got the one that she loves and when she gets that teenage rush then things go wrong. I wanted this character to love another girl because I wanted them both to feel hate and aggressiveness of men. I suppose it’s quite feminist in a way. Maybe it’s because I can see that many women in Thailand are abused by men. I had a lot of back-stories for my main character explaining why she hated men since she was young because of what her father did to her mom driving her to suicide. And how she was left alone. But once again we ran into budget problems and I lost quite a lot of my movie. So this feminist issue was mostly pulled out since it was just a subplot. Even today I still feel guilty about it. I should have put up more fight to save the story. In the end I cut the important part of the story. It was my mistake.

The idea of the tragic lesbian schoolgirl relationship seems to be a very common motif in Korean horror films ( for instance the Whispering Corridors series). Have you been influenced by any similar Korean (or other) films in your choice of subject?

P.W.: I was rather thinking along the lines of Oldboy or the entire revenge trilogy of Chan-wook Park. I like his work. I like his way of thinking.

You keep mentioning budget cuts. So what was the actual budget for your films?

P.W.: Vdoclip cost about 15 million baht to make but I only made about 7 million. Rab Nong cost 20 million and made 25 million. Whenever I try to make the story deeper, they always end up decreasing my budget.

I can see that Rab Nong was released internationally. I saw a German DVD available from an online store.

P.W.: Really? Get me a copy when you see it. [Laughing]

Does that mean you have no idea what’s happening to the distribution after you sell the rights?

P.W.: Not really. I can try looking at the shops myself but we don’t know much what’s happening. Once the film’s out it’s like a runaway kid. [Laughing]

Critics sometimes point out that one of the characteristic features of Thai movies is their hybridism. Your films seem to be a good example of that. Would you agree with that?

P.W.: Well, it’s the first time I’ve heard about it. [Laughing] But then it wouldn’t surprise me. It’s part of Thai culture. We mix everything together - what we play, what we eat. One of the most popular types of film in Thailand is taloc-phii-khatoey, a ghost-transsexual-comedy. It’s the way Thai people consume entertainment. We’ve been doing it pretty much everywhere, in drama, in theatre. That’s probably why it happens in films as well.

You wrote the script of Pop Weed Sayong. Similarly to krasue, pop is a spirit that does not seem to be treated very seriously in Thai movies. Why is that?

P.W.: For some reason ever since the first pop movie in Thai cinema it’s always been a comedy topic. In Thailand when you’re talking about pee pop everybody’s thinking of a comedy rather than horror. It’s been 30 years since the first Baan Phii Pop movie. The series has got about 13 or 14 parts now. Actually they’re shooting another one right now. I was thinking about doing a scary pop movie before they started shooting the new Baan Phii Pop. I even talked to P’Pud (Prachya Pinkaew) about it. But none of the investors wanted it. They said if it’s about pee pop it’s got to be a comedy. If I really want to make it it might have to be an independent film.

Your first film The Formalin Man seems radically different from your later movies. What inspired you to make it?

P.W.: When I think about it today, I can see it was sheer madness of making the first movie. I wanted to have everything together: music, ghosts, comedy, and the actors too. I really wanted to have Ekkachai Srivichai as the superstar. It was fun. I just mixed together everything I liked. Actually the core of the film comes from Buddhism. We’re talking about the body that’s not going to last forever. About impermanence. Fame, money, everything will be gone. The only thing that counts is love, whatever love you give to the people who surround you.

Who came up with the title?

P.W.: I called the movie The Formalin Man since there’s a scene when the man is injected with formalin to go on performing. But then the investor wanted to have a Thai title. And we chose Rak Ter Tau Fa, from the song “I love you like the sky.” So in the end we’ve got two titles which don’t make much sense together. [Laughing]

The title of the film and the concept of the lead singer being dead suggest a very different type of a movie. Why did you decide to kill the main character but decided not to exploit the horror potential of the story?

P.W.: Most of the time when people die in Thai films they become ghosts. I wanted to do something different. So, I thought, how about if the guy dies but he doesn’t want to leave his body. It’s like you’re already dead but you don’t know it and you still want to do something in this body, even though the body is decomposing. But the conscience is still there. Only it doesn’t want to know that it’s dead.

According to my statistics, over the last 3 years horror films made up for more than 1/3 of all the Thai film releases. What’s your opinion on the popularity of the horror genre in Thai cinema?

P.W.: The only one reason I can think of is marketing. Because the investors see there is a lesser chance of failure. Horror films in Thailand are still low budget and low risk for marketing. And also Thai people and ghosts stories belong together. There is a large group of people that will see any ghost story, even if all the stories look the same. Think how many Mae Nak stories we’ve made. So it’s a guarantee for the investor. And as history shows, films about ghosts seldom fail to make money in Thailand. Except for independent productions that get less promotion.

Are you thinking of directing another horror movie in the future?

P.W.: Yes. I have a lot more coming. I’m working on one story. It’s another one of the taloc-phii-khatoey ones. [Laughing]

We’ll be looking forward to that.

The interview was conducted in 2008 in cooperation with Sronrasilp Ngoenwichit and appeared in Asian Journal of Literature, Culture and Society 2.1.